Comment on Book Binding and Covers
Re: Uh, may have epiphanized too soon...
Posted:21 Jan 2010 (19:57 UTC)David,
For the hardcover, use the guides, and design to the yellow/orange boundary of "Imagewrap Hardcover Fold Area". Assume that is *roughly* where the cover image will fold around the edges. However, this is not exact, so extend elements that can fold around the edges well into the folder area. Since your background is white, everything should look fine. If you had a colored background, the color should extend all the way to the outer edges.
"If I was going to make both a hardcover and a softcover of the exact same book, would I have to shrink down the image for the hardcover to fit inside those lines"
Yes. The confusion is size of the image, and recommended design *within* the image of the recommend size. We recommend you keep important elements 1" away from the edge. The hardcover needs a lot more bleed, because the cover has to get wrapped around the edges of the book, and glued to the inside cover.
For the hardcover, use the guides, and design to the yellow/orange boundary of "Imagewrap Hardcover Fold Area". Assume that is *roughly* where the cover image will fold around the edges. However, this is not exact, so extend elements that can fold around the edges well into the folder area. Since your background is white, everything should look fine. If you had a colored background, the color should extend all the way to the outer edges.
"If I was going to make both a hardcover and a softcover of the exact same book, would I have to shrink down the image for the hardcover to fit inside those lines"
Yes. The confusion is size of the image, and recommended design *within* the image of the recommend size. We recommend you keep important elements 1" away from the edge. The hardcover needs a lot more bleed, because the cover has to get wrapped around the edges of the book, and glued to the inside cover.
Uh, may have epiphanized too soon...
Posted:20 Jan 2010 (22:48 UTC)This still means that I couldn't make both a soft and hardcover from the same image, because the "trim" size for the softcover is larger than the "turn-in" size for the hardcover.
For the hardcover, I would have to take the image that works perfectly for the softcover, and manipulate it in Photoshop to fit within the hardcover "zones," and upload it again.
And I wouldn't know exactly how much you guys would enlarge it... the design would end up in YOUR hands instead of mine.
I know you think that just "keep everything way away from the edge" is the solution, but I would like to be able to design a hardcover the same way as the softcover: seeing the actual dimensions, including the actual trim line, and even "safe areas"... but I still need something on the template or preview that shows where the actual cover edges are. The template shows the "fold area," but that's a large space to wonder about.
So we have to design hardcover art with no actual outside boundaries... just slowly fade our artwork to either nothing, or unimportant mush for that 1 inch all the way around.
For the hardcover, I would have to take the image that works perfectly for the softcover, and manipulate it in Photoshop to fit within the hardcover "zones," and upload it again.
And I wouldn't know exactly how much you guys would enlarge it... the design would end up in YOUR hands instead of mine.
I know you think that just "keep everything way away from the edge" is the solution, but I would like to be able to design a hardcover the same way as the softcover: seeing the actual dimensions, including the actual trim line, and even "safe areas"... but I still need something on the template or preview that shows where the actual cover edges are. The template shows the "fold area," but that's a large space to wonder about.
So we have to design hardcover art with no actual outside boundaries... just slowly fade our artwork to either nothing, or unimportant mush for that 1 inch all the way around.
- You'll probably answer with "exactly"-- but I sure wish for more.
Re: I may have just had an epiphany!!!!
Posted:20 Jan 2010 (21:16 UTC)Hi David,
Yes, exactly. (:biggrin:)
Yes, exactly. (:biggrin:)
I may have just had an epiphany!!!!
Posted:20 Jan 2010 (20:29 UTC)I might have figured this out!
Two replies ago, you stated this about the downloaded template:
"If it does not fit exactly, scale the template to fit your image (or vice-versa, either will produce the correct result in the end).
So I can leave my cover art the size I want it, and then scale your template UP to fit MY art. Then when I see it in the online preview, it will look correct and then print correctly, without ever being actually reduced by anybody!
Is that right? Am I on my way to extremely happy hardcover-making?
Two replies ago, you stated this about the downloaded template:
"If it does not fit exactly, scale the template to fit your image (or vice-versa, either will produce the correct result in the end).
So I can leave my cover art the size I want it, and then scale your template UP to fit MY art. Then when I see it in the online preview, it will look correct and then print correctly, without ever being actually reduced by anybody!
Is that right? Am I on my way to extremely happy hardcover-making?
- It doesn't really matter WHAT SIZE I upload, as long as it fits the template proportionately? That could solve all my problems.
So we have to reduce our images to then be enlarged to correct dimensions?
Posted:20 Jan 2010 (19:28 UTC)Wow, this is like a bad dream...
So it DOES end up larger than the actual cover size, which I have asked about repeatedly, and which is totally logical, but... ( and this is a BIG but....)
... I have to shrink my image down to fit inside those zones, just so you can enlarge it again? Hmmm... then my 300ppi resolution becomes LESS than 300ppi once you do that... or at least, not as sharp as it was to begin with.
Even though it seems like a horribly goofy way to do it, why isn't that stated anywhere on the spec pages - that one has to reduce their cover design just so it will get enlarged to fit again? At least that explains it to those of us who can't believe it would be done this way.
That's what I needed to know. I can't really believe it, but now I know.
So if you enlarge the cover art, wouldn't it mean that yes, the hardcover image would end up the same size as the softcover image, once they are both printed?
Why would it be any different, other than my hardcover image ends up less sharp than the softcover image, since it got enlarged from a smaller size?
Hmmm, do you see why your "simple answer" has always seemed strange to those of us who have designed for printing all of our lives? It never occurred to me that I would have to REDUCE my cover art, just so it would get enlarged again.
So I should just "pretend" that the 11x8.5 space I want to fill is in that little area inside the "zones". Okay, so when I reduce my image in Photoshop, with your template as a guide, I will make sure that my 11x8.5 image is within that tiny space, and my 1/4" bleed extends a little into the first color zone, right?
And then I'm supposed to just trust you guys to enlarge my design the right way?
Huh, ....all I can say is... wow.
PS-- I just ordered a softcover AND a hardcover, to see the difference.
Now I'm thinking: If you guys go to the trouble of enlarging the images to the "right" dimensions, why won't you go to the trouble of reducing the images that are a little too big?
So it DOES end up larger than the actual cover size, which I have asked about repeatedly, and which is totally logical, but... ( and this is a BIG but....)
... I have to shrink my image down to fit inside those zones, just so you can enlarge it again? Hmmm... then my 300ppi resolution becomes LESS than 300ppi once you do that... or at least, not as sharp as it was to begin with.
Even though it seems like a horribly goofy way to do it, why isn't that stated anywhere on the spec pages - that one has to reduce their cover design just so it will get enlarged to fit again? At least that explains it to those of us who can't believe it would be done this way.
That's what I needed to know. I can't really believe it, but now I know.
So if you enlarge the cover art, wouldn't it mean that yes, the hardcover image would end up the same size as the softcover image, once they are both printed?
Why would it be any different, other than my hardcover image ends up less sharp than the softcover image, since it got enlarged from a smaller size?
Hmmm, do you see why your "simple answer" has always seemed strange to those of us who have designed for printing all of our lives? It never occurred to me that I would have to REDUCE my cover art, just so it would get enlarged again.
So I should just "pretend" that the 11x8.5 space I want to fill is in that little area inside the "zones". Okay, so when I reduce my image in Photoshop, with your template as a guide, I will make sure that my 11x8.5 image is within that tiny space, and my 1/4" bleed extends a little into the first color zone, right?
And then I'm supposed to just trust you guys to enlarge my design the right way?
Huh, ....all I can say is... wow.
PS-- I just ordered a softcover AND a hardcover, to see the difference.
Now I'm thinking: If you guys go to the trouble of enlarging the images to the "right" dimensions, why won't you go to the trouble of reducing the images that are a little too big?
Re:
Posted:20 Jan 2010 (18:06 UTC)David,
One of your assumptions is incorrect - "when both books (hardcover and softcover) are printed, the cover image is the same size on both"
An 11x8.5 softcover needs a file that has an extra 1/8" on each edge. That is pretty straight forward.
An 11x8.5 Imagewrap hardcover (technically called the 'case') is 1/4" bigger than the trim size. Also, and this is a key, Imagewrap hardcovers need an extra .5" of paper on each edge to wrap around the edges of the book. In order to maintain aspect ratio as best we can, we adjust the .5" some (a touch less on the vertical, and touch more on the horizontal).
So, to allow one to order a book in different bindings, we resize the 11.25x8.75 cover to get large enough cover we can wrap around the cardboard.
For your book, the exact size of the Imagewrap hardcover file turned out to be 24.17"x9.67" - 11.98" wide for the front and back, and .21" for the spine. The vertical needed an extra .58" for the oversized case and extra paper to wrap around the edge (technically called "turn in").
The exact dimensions for the image wrap vary and change as our manufacturing process changes. This is why we don't give exact numbers for the Imagewrap hardcovers.
Follow the guides we give you and all will be fine. So the simple answer, do not let important elements go into the yellow, orange or red zones, and everything will be fine.
One of your assumptions is incorrect - "when both books (hardcover and softcover) are printed, the cover image is the same size on both"
An 11x8.5 softcover needs a file that has an extra 1/8" on each edge. That is pretty straight forward.
An 11x8.5 Imagewrap hardcover (technically called the 'case') is 1/4" bigger than the trim size. Also, and this is a key, Imagewrap hardcovers need an extra .5" of paper on each edge to wrap around the edges of the book. In order to maintain aspect ratio as best we can, we adjust the .5" some (a touch less on the vertical, and touch more on the horizontal).
So, to allow one to order a book in different bindings, we resize the 11.25x8.75 cover to get large enough cover we can wrap around the cardboard.
For your book, the exact size of the Imagewrap hardcover file turned out to be 24.17"x9.67" - 11.98" wide for the front and back, and .21" for the spine. The vertical needed an extra .58" for the oversized case and extra paper to wrap around the edge (technically called "turn in").
The exact dimensions for the image wrap vary and change as our manufacturing process changes. This is why we don't give exact numbers for the Imagewrap hardcovers.
Follow the guides we give you and all will be fine. So the simple answer, do not let important elements go into the yellow, orange or red zones, and everything will be fine.
Re: templates wrong???
Posted:20 Jan 2010 (04:06 UTC)Okay, so the template for the cover of the 11x8.5 landscape is LARGER than that (for some reason?) but when I made the height 8.75 (like it maybe SHOULD have been in the first place?) the width is now 10.835, when it should end up being 11.25. That's YOUR template. Is it wrong? This is very frustrating.
If I could just get someone to answer this one question... I've asked it over and over in e-mails to support, and they never answer it:
But for the hardcover, the turn-in area is SMALLER than the cover dimensions. Why can't you see why this is weird? It should be the same as the softcover, except that there could be MORE bleed area if the turn-in needs more.
So that when both books are printed, and put side-by-side, the cover image is the same size on both, because both books are the same size.
This seems like a simple concept.
And here's something else:
You just took it off, but up until yesterday, on the cover spec page it showed the total height of the 11" PORTRAIT hardcover as 12.75. Why was that shown as a larger dimension, like I think it SHOULD be? That would mean that you wanted us to ADD the turn-in onto the size of the book cover, which seems like the only logical way it could work!
If I could just get someone to answer this one question... I've asked it over and over in e-mails to support, and they never answer it:
- Two books, same size, same cover image. One softcover, one hardcover. Softcover gets the 1/4" bleed trimmed...great, I designed for that... I've had 5 softcovers done here, and they were perfect.
But for the hardcover, the turn-in area is SMALLER than the cover dimensions. Why can't you see why this is weird? It should be the same as the softcover, except that there could be MORE bleed area if the turn-in needs more.
So that when both books are printed, and put side-by-side, the cover image is the same size on both, because both books are the same size.
This seems like a simple concept.
And here's something else:
You just took it off, but up until yesterday, on the cover spec page it showed the total height of the 11" PORTRAIT hardcover as 12.75. Why was that shown as a larger dimension, like I think it SHOULD be? That would mean that you wanted us to ADD the turn-in onto the size of the book cover, which seems like the only logical way it could work!
Re:
Posted:19 Jan 2010 (02:31 UTC)Hi David,
We have updated our cover templates, which should help in your designs. See the Book Binding and Covers or the Templates Gallery. Download the PNG file and add it as a layer in your photo editing software. It is translucent, so you can see what is underneath. If it does not fit exactly, scale the template to fit your image (or vice-versa, either will produce the correct result in the end).
If you want to have one book available in hard and soft cover, just make sure the content of cover images in the outer 1" is something that can be cut or folded. Typically sky, water, beach, mountain, etc... in your case, perhaps additional characters that look as if they are a pattern similar to wrapping paper. Do NOT put any text, or crucial visual elements. If you do that, all should be fine.
We have updated our cover templates, which should help in your designs. See the Book Binding and Covers or the Templates Gallery. Download the PNG file and add it as a layer in your photo editing software. It is translucent, so you can see what is underneath. If it does not fit exactly, scale the template to fit your image (or vice-versa, either will produce the correct result in the end).
If you want to have one book available in hard and soft cover, just make sure the content of cover images in the outer 1" is something that can be cut or folded. Typically sky, water, beach, mountain, etc... in your case, perhaps additional characters that look as if they are a pattern similar to wrapping paper. Do NOT put any text, or crucial visual elements. If you do that, all should be fine.
Posted:14 Jan 2010 (18:29 UTC)
- "We recommend you make the cover images as well as the interior page images 1/2" larger than your book size. For 11x8.5 the cover image would be 11.25x8.75."*
I kept it simple and followed those instructions, but on the cover preview the hardcover turn-in bleed area cuts waaaaay into my image.
That is what I don't understand... support says to do one thing, but then the preview shows that everything will get cut off.
Tell me this: If I was going to make both a hardcover and a softcover of the exact same book, would I have to shrink down the image for the hardcover to fit inside those lines, even though the sentence above in quotes says what it says?
Do you see what I mean? Am I missing something here?
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